SmallBall Sports Forums Archives

[MarketWizard]

Congrats XST and Stormy for a 1st Place finish in PL1. Congrats XST for having a lower ID # to get the badge. I am considering retirement for The Chicago Mob and move on to greener pastures just becuase of this issue. If Commish really wanted to improve the game he would move to something like a 1 game playoff, or a 30 Game season where a 2 out of 3 head to head matchup could decide ties like this and a pure champion could be crowned. If anyone has a stat on how many times this has happened please post so Commish can actually see how many pure champions there actually are, it might open his eyes.

MarketWizard
The Chicago Mob
122631

[Gooser]

Amen brother. Never thought having the lower ID should matter. It just gives Smallball the excuse to sell the low ID packages. It is a farce and will continue to be a farce because it will not change. $ is involved and besides in order to change, Smallball would actually have to do something.

[Beaner]

It'll truly be a sad day in Smallball if we lose The Chicago Mob.

A tie-breaker would be nice. Perhaps a 2 out of 3 series. But as you know it's always been this way. It's just not very often that it comes into play this blatantly.
_________________

Proud Member of Smallball Devils
803 - 11 Great Trainers and Beaner (AcA)-(PL1)

[nelmo]

This is why the APL will rock

[mlthmp]

[ivy]

There's NO crying in Baseball

[nelmo]

[TNT1]

[Shreyes Arun]

well congrats, whatta do u mean no team has gone undefeated???

Do u mean back to back or winning PL1 wiothout dropping a match!!!

Shreyes
_________________
130001 9* DT/ Prev 10* w/2 stads + PL3 badge
152317 8* DT/ Prev. 9* w/3 stads + PL5 Badge
173633 1* ST/ Prev. 9* w/1 stad + PL8 Badge
400055 1* DT/ Prev 9*
194205 1* DT/ Prev 5* w/1 stad
Footy 283398 2* ATing for comp.

[Rally 66 2.0]

He means no team has ever went 18-0 in PL 1.
Please don't retire the Chicago Mob. We will then lose some history.
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Rally's 12LeftyGuyz
IowaHawkeyes|Rally
Rally'sOther12LeftyGuyz

[Rowdy Rooster]

[MarketWizard]

Well Guys I haven't trained my team in 2 days now and have thought the issue over. Right now I am 0-5 in Pl1 due to my lack of interest in the game right now. In the 21 seasons that have ties I've lost out with low ID # in 3 of them. Just because I didn't start this team with store bought 900 team or wasn't around when the game started I have 4 PL1 Champion Badges (ALL OF WHICH WERE EARNED WITH A OUTRIGHT WIN) instead of 7 if I were to have the fabled low ID# on the team. So my feeling is anybody started a team after 2004 is facing a almost impossible mountain to climb just to get to PL1, let alone win it. Because this Low ID# is standard through all leagues below PL1 getting knocked down a league or advancement. As for Smallball sitting on there hands doing absolutely nothing about anything, Last time I checked it was a for profit business and as everybody knows money talks and BS walks, If everyone boycotted ticket, stadium, and deluxe trainers until they got thier act together, everyone would be shocked how fast things would get fixed when the money stops flowing. So as it stands right now at 0-5 with a HIGH ID# you can stick a fork in me Im done this season. As for Retireing the team as of right now I wont do it. But I have 6 QT Tickets that I will trade for 1 Retirement ticket. (All tickets have been earned in PL1 and were not bought). Just remember according to the stat every 5th season you will get screwed on your PL1 badge by your High Id #.

MarketWizard
The Chicago Mob
122631

[Rowdy Rooster]

I will greatly miss you and your insightful posts. Yes, today I noticed you stopped training your team. SmallBall has lost a great Champion and I am truly sad because you have a great point that is obviously being ignored. Good luck to you in the future "Market Wizard", I will always remember you and your team and wil regard you as one of the greatest ever in SB. You are a TRUE CHAMPION!
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"A true risk taker is one who invests in SmallBall."

[MarketWizard]

[quote="Rowdy Rooster"][quote="MarketWizard"]I put a Big Wager on your Team winning PL1 this season over at PVT's gaming community (wouldn't that be a bummer)

Do to my lack of Interest lately, and havent trained them in the last 2 days and only off and on since the end of last season, and the talk of retirement. I would expect that PVT would not honor that bet. If they are true competitors knowing now that you would not have made that bet if you have known that I really dont care much right now.

[nelmo]

Take care buddy, you will be missed. You cannot talk about the best teams in smallball history without mentioning TCM. We bumped heads too many times for me not to miss them, and the competition. You have always been a class act, and will be also missed.

[Rowdy Rooster]

I really don't care about the wager I made Market Wizard. I care about the point you are trying to make. It's sad that the powers that be will not confront your point or even take out the time to follow up on the Forums. I police the forums more than they do and funny thing is they get paid for it.
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"A true risk taker is one who invests in SmallBall."

[Catch22]

I do not normally have much to say, but I will say this. To put this in another context, I'll offer up England 137111 as an example. High ID, 6 PL 1 titles.

I don't know for sure how many times I've placed higher as a result of a tie at the end of the season because of the ID, I would guess probably none and never. More likely I've suffered some too, like the Chicago Mob.

Many times I have gained better position as a result of the team ranking from the previous season.

It's always been that way, probably always will be.

Sorry to see you go Wiz. I'll miss the rivalry and the always exciting games against The Mob, if giving it up is what you're going to do.

[MarketWizard]

Im not going to retire right now. And there definitely is life after SmallBall. I wasnt even the one involved in this tie. I have accompished just about everything there is to do in this game. If I do decide to retire this team, I wont do it like that, They will be at the top of thier game. Granted that teams can do it like England, but the odds are stacked against you. Its just a shame that a true champ cant be crowned each and every season. Im sure with todays software advancements that issues like this are not as complicated as Smallball makes it sound. My personal opionion is that SmallBall doesnt give a Rats Rear about anything but cashing checks that come in from sales. This game has been the same old crap since I started playing with the only upgrade I noticed was a Windows based DT. If they cant fix the current format they should make a new one where championship's and league advancements and demotions decisions are made by actual league play and not by the totally biased system that is in place now. All other online games have evolved over time with the new technology advancement's, Why not SmallBall? Im basically tired of the same lame bottom excuses of why any bugs of any kind can never be fixed. This one issue here is just a reporting issue and should be the easiest of fixes because it shouldnt mess with the core game, just the report that the game creates. I personally dont think think we ask anything from SmallBall but to run thier business in a professional manner, and deal with issues as they arise. In the business Im in your told excuses are like butt holes and they all stink. Thats my answer to SmallBall is all your excuses stink on why nothing can be done about anything. And maybe if you start to lose your franchise teams over these issues maybe you may wake up and actually get those issues resolved. Anybody who wants to trade my 6 QT tickets for your 1 retirement ticket, message me.

MarketWizard
The Chicago Mob
122631

[James14]

I agree with you as much as humanly possible.

But, if you take out the tie-breaker that the lower id = higher placement, then what would be the incentive to buy lower id teams? They would have a significant decrease in price. Thus, decreasing the amount of money flowing into the bank.

This is a business, and like many online games that I've played (of course not all) the person with the biggest pocket is able to have the upper hand. I back this up with: DT, lefties, lower id teams, and holidays.
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[Catch22]

"Granted that teams can do it like England, but the odds are stacked against you."

True! I think this game is all about over coming the odds against you!

[redbirds33]

I don't have a low ID team, but I don't think a change should be made. Think about all the people that did spend the money to get a good id. They paid for that priviledge, and it shouldn't be taken away from them.

[Gooser]

[ivy]

I do have to agree with MW after reading this thread. The Lower ID shouldn't win in a tie, just beause. Possibly being a bought 7xx,8xx,9xx for several dollars.

I think SB can make a seniority system for these kinds of occurences.

Easy and simple: Seasons spent in PL's 1st through 3rd.

PL1=3 pts. per season
PL2=2 pts. per season
PL3=1 pt. per season

Seniority wins tie breakers, just like being at work

[Rowdy Rooster]

The Low ID should be a factor but not in PL1 tie-breakers. The best team at the end of the season should be the winner of the badge!
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"A true risk taker is one who invests in SmallBall."

[bigdogv65]

[ivy]

read thouroughly.

I am not sporting a low ID

Example:

2283 has made a career in the upper PL's, wuithout winning a Gold, and if this team was to have an exact tie with a bought 7xx,8xx,9xx team and lose the gold. I'd be POed.

I mean this 2283 has been in PL1 for a great amount of seasons.
If you were to use this point system, This team would maybe beat England in a tie breaker unless we gave a 4 pt. for Golds.

When the tightness of a tie breaker is as it was, the system I am trying to argue should be used

[The_Safo]

[BP]

I think run differential should be the deciding tiebreaker in all PL's.
_________________
Quote of the Week:
Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out of it alive.

[bigdogv65]

[SB_Knights]

I think what he is getting at is that Stormy beat the XsT team in both games. They should not have won the tie breaker because the team that was tied with them they never beat.

Correct me if I am wrong here, but that is the issue at hand.

How can two teams that are tied, when one never wins against the other win the tie breaker. They lost 2 in a row to the other team, there is no tie breaker, they lost, plan and simple. But the team number determines the tie breaker and they win.

That is the issue.
By games played, Stormy is the winner, by team number, XsT is the winner.
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| 527539 PL2 - 2 Time Devil's Night Winner |
| 956 PL2 - 1 Time Fight Night Winner |
| 3669 | 17151 | 47977 | 105056 | 485404 | 526564 |
| Team 10.4 | 701 | 703 | 14853 | 528434 |

[MarketWizard]

[MarketWizard]

[quote="Gooser]
However I don't agree with you if you are not training or not trying while in PL1. I have always believed owners in PL1 had a responsibility to the game to play the best that they can the entire season. It is a respect for the game (not necessarily the management) that gives the owner that responsibility. PL championships are hard to come by and I don't think you would want to diminish that accomplishment for a worthy opponent, or possibly change the outcome.

If you want to change the game, change has to come from within. If you retire The Mob, the game will move on without them for better or worse. If you stay, the possibility that you will be listened to is still there (however remote).[/quote]

Gooser I see your point, and my 1st feeling was why bother to even play this silly little game and walked away pretty upset. After a few day cooldown period I did train them and beat HMS Surprise in a PL1 game so they are not a pushover. You say you dont want to diminish the accomplishment of a worthy opponent or possibly change the outcome. Well Stormy sweeps the PL1 Head to Head with XST and loses the tiebreaker on a ID#. I think the accomplishment of a worthy opponet has been diminished, and the biased rules DID change the outcome. Yes PL1 badges are hard to come by and I do belive they should all be earned by playing the game, not by the unfair tie breakers that are in place now.
Remember the Stat is 1 out of 5 PL1 badges are in question of being earned fairly.

MarketWizard
The Chicago Mob
122631

[DarkElf]

MarketWizard,

I just saw that you are considering retiring over this issue, so I'm sorry I missed this thread until now.

You know I have a great deal of respect for you. You truly revolutionized the game IMO, and I'd hate to see you leave over an issue like this. Especially since I think you have this all wrong...

You asked how many times this has happened. Examine all the seasons listed by TNT1. With the exception of season #33, the team that won the tiebreaker did so NOT because they had a lower ID, but because they finished higher the season before. This is an important distinction that must be made. Season #33 WAS based on team ID, but these rules were changed sometime after season #33 so that season placement became the FIRST tiebreaker and team ID became the SECOND tiebreaker. So, to answer your question, last season (#138) was the FIRST time in (modern) SB history that a PL1 team won a championship on a tiebreaker because they had the lower ID.

So, as far as I know, there are only two realistic ways that a lower ID can win the PL1 championship on a tiebreaker involving team ID, and one of them is only indirectly based on team ID.

1) Two or more teams tie for 1st place and _all_ the teams were in 2nd league the season before (they are all ^ teams). This is the only direct way team ID can dictate the PL1 winner.

2) Two or more teams tie for 1st place, the teams were promoted to PL1 the season before (were ^ teams), and the teams tied in that season. Therefore, the PL1 win is indirectly based on team ID.

In every other instance, 1st place is decided by where you finished the season before. Now, you can argue that this isn't fair either, and I just might agree with you, but at least it's based on your merits from the previous season, not some random BS like team ID.

Where team ID is much more an issue with PL1 is if you get promoted to PL1 and have a high ID; you end up being dead last in the tiebreaker, even if you WON PL2 the season before. I think that is nonsense.

Deciding tiebreakers with a playoff, H2H, run differential, or something along those lines would be wonderful. But since SmallBall first tiebreaker is based on your previous season's placing in the standings, I've always felt the ^ and v designation were stupid. If you finished 1st in PL2, you should get the 6th tiebreaker in PL1 the next season. If you finish 2nd, you should be 7th. Etc..... And it works the other way too. If you finish 6th in PL1, you should be 1 in PL2, 7th = 2, etc....

Anyway, I just wanted to make the distinction. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

[Rowdy Rooster]

I didn't do the investigation that Dark Elf did nor have I verified his claim. But if this is the case, you need to get back in here Market Wizard. That Chicago Mob team has been great and I really love great trainers who train great. Sure the Chicago Mob is now down to 9* but that doesn't mean they can't win PL1 again (I'm sure I'm not telling you something you don't already know). TNT did alot of research and Dark Elf has called out your claim that ID's are the major factor in winning Championships.
Get that team back where it belongs.

Dark Elf, if your claim is true (as I find it hard to believe you would post differently), then thank you for bringing up this fact. It may just get Market Wizard back in where he belongs (On top in PL1).

Just don't give up on your team, MW, many people here really care about the competition and want to see the best of the best continue in the game. Sure some changes are needed in the game but it's a shame to see that team go to waste and for you to lose faith.
I know you are trying to send a message to Commish but unlike Verizon Wireless, it sounds as if he can't hear you. Probably why the Community has decided to eliminate Commish from the equation (No offense Commish but you have asked us to do so) and start up a separate community. A community where SmallBallers who are sick of begging for changes without result and are now ready to take things into their own hands. If anything I give TW (and many others) tons of credit for doing what needed to be done. Everyone needs to start asking themselves what they can do for the game not what the game can do for you. A little bit of everyones time can go a long way. And though you may not believe it, it is a fact and the people who are presently committed to improving the game are ready to prove it.
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"A true risk taker is one who invests in SmallBall."

[DarkElf]

RR,

The tiebreaking has been this way for years, this I can say with certainty. Team ID _only_ matters when you're a ^ team and are tied with another ^ team, or you're a V team and are tied with another V team.

I mostly addressed its relevance to winning PL1. But the fact remains that for PL1, this silly ^ and V system has a far greater impact on deciding who is demoted out of PL1. And it has even more impact in the lower leagues.

So while the specific situation MW is addressing isn't factual, the overall complaint that using team ID for any aspect of a tiebreaker has plenty of merit. Unfortunately, it's been brought up many times over the years and we still have the system in place. And now with all the 700-900 teams that have been sold, I'd be shocked to see it change now. It really wouldn't be fair to the people who bought these teams. (Note that I don't even have my low ID teams in the PLs, so I'm not saying this for personal gain).

[MarketWizard]

Thank you Darkelf for your input here. I wouldnt have been so steamed if it wasnt for the fact that Stormy swept the Head to Head compitition and to lose that way just seemed way to wrong. I still truely think that we deserve a True Champion based strictly on league play. If a user league could be made that would support a 30 game season, where tiebreakers could be done manually if needed on a 2 out of 3 wins I would be all over that. Im going to take a short break for 1 or 2 seasons and Nelmo will AT them. Your post did calm me down on this matter quite abit realizing that this was really a odd situation. I will enjoy the break and hope that I miss this game that I have loved for such a long time.


MarketWizard
The Chicago Mob
122631

[DarkElf]

[The_Safo]

[DarkElf]