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jayie Expert


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Location: new york Forum ID: 2792
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:17 pm Post subject:
life, death or a long boat ride to nowhere Subject description: where do you stand on punishment? |
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it's a slow day in the boardroom so i've been catching up on my news. so far one theme seems to dominate; how we deal with society's bad apples. i thought it might make a good topic of discussion for people here, something different. i've pasted links to just a few of the stories i read this morning below so you can see where i'm coming from.
australian drug smuggler executed in singapore
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200512/s1522539.htm
racist axe murderers get 20 years minimum
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/4477156.stm
carlie brucia's killer recommended to execution
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10284274/
stanley tookie williams, founder of the crips to be executed
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10283433/
nations 1000th execution since 1977
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10283003/
karla homolka given all her freedoms
http://www.torontosun.com/News/2005/12/02/1334163.html
my question is this; how do you think we as a society (either domestically or globally) should handle our criminals? should convicted killers be allowed to roam free after they've served 15 years while the family(s) of their victims continue to live with the pain forever? should drug smugglers be executed to deter others? is it humane that a person spend twenty years on death row? why should we, as taxpayers have to foot the bill to keep these people locked up? maybe we should ship all prisoners off to antarctica and leave them fend for themselves like the british (sent them to australia) and french (sent to guyana) did in the 1800s? are you comfortable knowing that a convicted s*x offender can relocate to your neighbourhood and their identity be kept secret from you? should a life sentence mean life?
what's your position? how do you feel about how we treat prisoners?
please respect other people's opinions. we all come from different backgrounds and cultures so it's inevitable we disagree on some things. there is no right or wrong in this debate just an exchange of ideas. |
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ALT Trade Agent of the Month


Joined: 20 May 2005
Location: Oot and Aboot. Forum ID: 5765
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:25 pm Post subject:
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I personally think that we are doing pretty good the way we are doing it now, but I like the idea of shipping convicts to a deserted island or something like that. Just my 2 cents. _________________ 73298 l 4044
check out www.thesmalltribe.com/dnn GO TsT! |
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redbirds33 Veteran


Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO Forum ID: 6201
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:40 pm Post subject:
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I have, and always will, have an open stance on capital punishment. I am generally opposed to it, but it should be reserved for certain instances.
First of all, it's totally wrong to use it as a deterrent to others. Seeing a drug trafficker get the death penalty is very upsetting to me, but that's Singapore. That trafficker knew he shouldn't be messing with drugs in Singapore. My parents went to Singapore years ago, and everyone on the plane was warned not to bring certain illegal drugs (including marijuana) through customs, or they could be executed on the spot. Singapore is a very strict nation, and they can do as they wish. It's their sovereignty.
The USA on the other hand, is the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave. The government has the responsibility to treat all human beings humanely, regardless of their crimes. Innocent people have been killed by the government. That should never happen. 1,000 capital punishments since 1977 is sad. It has become a form of revenge, and that's just not right. It should be more like 50-100, only to prevent those who can't be constrained in prison from killing more. Never should someone be executed solely for an instance prior to being convicted. |
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Durin Veteran


Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Minneapolis, MN, U.S Forum ID: 2542
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:01 pm Post subject:
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I did some research on capital punishment last year, and personally, I think there's is absolutely no merit in taking a convict's life, no matter what they have done.
It is morally and fiscally wrong, and statistics say it doesn't even do its job.
First of all, an execution is permanent. If we lock someone up, we can always return their freedom and do what we can to repay our debt for the time they wrongfully spent in prison. If we execute someone, we can't just bring them back to life if we discover that they're innocent. The government has no right to take away what cannot be given back.
Second, capital punishment is not cheap. It may seem like offing a prisoner will save money in the long run, but in reality it is significantly more expensive. For one thing, executions are not carried out immediately after the verdict is issued. Prisoners can spend up to 20 years on death row before the actually execution is performed. Also, the amount of money spent in the judicial process of getting someone executed is flat-out ridiculous. In California (I think, I could be wrong), they were spending so much on their death row inmates that they had to cut back on public spending, such as education. Which is more important to you, killing our criminals in the hopes of deterring other to perform similar crimes, or making sure our children get good education, hopefully preventing them from turning to crime in the first place?
Finally, studies have shown that the death penalty may not even be at all effective in preventing capital crimes. In the U.S., the majority of the states that do not have the death penalty have an overall lower murder rate than the states that do. So are criminals really afraid of death when they carry out these crimes?
Personally, I find the idea of life in prison without possibility of parole much more frightening than death. Everybody dies, and while dieing sooner than I'd like is not in any way appealing, it sounds a hell of a lot better than spending the remainder of my life behind bars. Maybe I'm weird, but the choice seems clear to me.
My point is, capital punishment has no redeeming values. It's morally wrong, economically unsound, and a poor deterrent. _________________
| The English Language wrote: | | Please stop killing me. |
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Big Hippie Pro


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Location: Georgia, USA Forum ID: 748
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:42 pm Post subject:
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great topic ..very interesting indeed.
it is written in a very popular book that "thou shall not kill"
i dont remember seeing an asterik.
peace,
hip _________________ http://www.privateersclan.com |
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yagadan05 Guest
Forum ID: -1
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:22 pm Post subject:
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| Big Hippie wrote: | great topic ..very interesting indeed.
it is written in a very popular book that "thou shall not kill"
i dont remember seeing an asterik.
peace,
hip |
Quoting the Bible doesn't count as thinking
-As on this whole idea of Punishment -- I do not know enough to make any comment on it at this time. Perhaps I'll read a few websites and do a little research and comment on this later.
All I know is that it's expensive and a problem. |
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pizzaguy Veteran

Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Location: T-Town Forum ID: 4887
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:33 pm Post subject:
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| Big Hippie wrote: | great topic ..very interesting indeed.
it is written in a very popular book that "thou shall not kill"
i dont remember seeing an asterik.
peace,
hip |
The Bible has capital punishment in it as well, and speaks [b]FOR[/i] it. Eye for an Eye. |
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solipsta Veteran


Joined: 24 Oct 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC Forum ID: 15
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:20 pm Post subject:
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| pizzaguy wrote: | | Big Hippie wrote: | great topic ..very interesting indeed.
it is written in a very popular book that "thou shall not kill"
i dont remember seeing an asterik.
peace,
hip |
The Bible has capital punishment in it as well, and speaks [b]FOR[/i] it. Eye for an Eye. |
Omg. You mean that the bible contradicts itself? Whoda thunk it? _________________ "I can resist anything except temptation" - Oscar Wilde |
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pizzaguy Veteran

Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Location: T-Town Forum ID: 4887
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:31 pm Post subject:
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| I don't see arguing being any good, because usually, people don't change their minds. So I'm just going to say The Bible has the right answers. Read it to answer all questions you might have. And possibly try contacting a local pastor. |
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ALT Trade Agent of the Month


Joined: 20 May 2005
Location: Oot and Aboot. Forum ID: 5765
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:45 pm Post subject:
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| solipsta wrote: | | pizzaguy wrote: | | Big Hippie wrote: | great topic ..very interesting indeed.
it is written in a very popular book that "thou shall not kill"
i dont remember seeing an asterik.
peace,
hip |
The Bible has capital punishment in it as well, and speaks [b]FOR[/i] it. Eye for an Eye. |
Omg. You mean that the bible contradicts itself? Whoda thunk it? |
If you read the Bible a certain way, yes it does contradict itself. You have to read it and understand it to see that it is the perfect literary masterpiece. _________________ 73298 l 4044
check out www.thesmalltribe.com/dnn GO TsT! |
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yagadan05 Guest
Forum ID: -1
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:59 pm Post subject:
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This conversation is headed way in the wrong direction.
The Bible should not be consulted. First off, we're not all Christians.
Some of you really need to realize this.
This topic is not about what the Bible says - I could not care less what the Bible says, it's about money, society, and current life. Let's get back on the right track - Secular views only. |
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jayie Expert


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Location: new york Forum ID: 2792
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:01 pm Post subject:
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| pizzaguy wrote: | | The Bible has capital punishment in it as well, and speaks FOR it. Eye for an Eye. |
the trouble with an eye for an eye is that eventually everyone ends up blind.
let's keep the bible out of this one and stick to the subject at hand, ok. i was asking for your opinions, not the bible's or your pastors. |
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Wookie8662 Expert


Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Location: A Galaxy Far, Far Aw Forum ID: 1233
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:18 pm Post subject:
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<Thread Hijack>
| jayie wrote: | | the trouble with an eye for an eye is that eventually everyone ends up blind. |
Good sig material there.
</Thread Hijack> |
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jayie Expert


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Location: new york Forum ID: 2792
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:27 pm Post subject:
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| Quote: | Good sig material there. |
i think it was ghandi. |
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yagadan05 Guest
Forum ID: -1
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:32 pm Post subject:
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| jayie wrote: | | Quote: | Good sig material there. |
i think it was ghandi. |
Just to be correct:
"The law an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." - Mohandas Gandhi. |
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ALT Trade Agent of the Month


Joined: 20 May 2005
Location: Oot and Aboot. Forum ID: 5765
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:47 pm Post subject:
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| yagadan05 wrote: | This conversation is headed way in the wrong direction.
The Bible should not be consulted. First off, we're not all Christians.
Some of you really need to realize this.
This topic is not about what the Bible says - I could not care less what the Bible says, it's about money, society, and current life. Let's get back on the right track - Secular views only. |
I didn't start it!  _________________ 73298 l 4044
check out www.thesmalltribe.com/dnn GO TsT! |
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yankee04 Pro

Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Location: NYC Forum ID: 5943
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:23 pm Post subject:
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I am completely respectful of all others opinions on this issue, but I think that the death penalty should never be used no matter what crime had been done. First and most important, some people will be executed and are really innocent. There is always a chance that new evidence could come up that says they didn't do it. The death penalty is not a deterrent. I know this because I did a 10 page term paper on this issue. Having the death penalty has not lowered crime in America (check the stats if you want to find out). Also, some people will argue that spending life in jail without parole is worse than the death penalty anyway. Just imagine sitting in your cell, 23 hours a day, for the rest of your life. You can argue with me if you want, but I won't change my position on the issue. _________________ Go Giants!!! |
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BP Veteran


Joined: 14 Jun 2003
Forum ID: 1901
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:04 pm Post subject:
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| yankee04 wrote: | | I am completely respectful of all others opinions on this issue, but I think that the death penalty should never be used no matter what crime had been done. First and most important, some people will be executed and are really innocent. There is always a chance that new evidence could come up that says they didn't do it. The death penalty is not a deterrent. I know this because I did a 10 page term paper on this issue. Having the death penalty has not lowered crime in America (check the stats if you want to find out). Also, some people will argue that spending life in jail without parole is worse than the death penalty anyway. Just imagine sitting in your cell, 23 hours a day, for the rest of your life. You can argue with me if you want, but I won't change my position on the issue. |
Do you want to pay the taxes to feed all these insane people? _________________ Quote of the Week:
Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out of it alive. |
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pizzaguy Veteran

Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Location: T-Town Forum ID: 4887
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:07 pm Post subject:
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| jayie wrote: | | pizzaguy wrote: | | The Bible has capital punishment in it as well, and speaks FOR it. Eye for an Eye. |
the trouble with an eye for an eye is that eventually everyone ends up blind.
let's keep the bible out of this one and stick to the subject at hand, ok. i was asking for your opinions, not the bible's or your pastors. |
My Opinion comes from the Bible... lol!
(again... I'm not arguing anything... just having friendly chat)  |
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yankee04 Pro

Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Location: NYC Forum ID: 5943
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:22 pm Post subject:
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| BP wrote: | | Do you want to pay the taxes to feed all these insane people? |
i dont mind it dont add that much to my taxes. id rather that they survive. killing is wrong _________________ Go Giants!!! |
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Durin Veteran


Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Minneapolis, MN, U.S Forum ID: 2542
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:48 pm Post subject:
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| BP wrote: | | yankee04 wrote: | | I am completely respectful of all others opinions on this issue, but I think that the death penalty should never be used no matter what crime had been done. First and most important, some people will be executed and are really innocent. There is always a chance that new evidence could come up that says they didn't do it. The death penalty is not a deterrent. I know this because I did a 10 page term paper on this issue. Having the death penalty has not lowered crime in America (check the stats if you want to find out). Also, some people will argue that spending life in jail without parole is worse than the death penalty anyway. Just imagine sitting in your cell, 23 hours a day, for the rest of your life. You can argue with me if you want, but I won't change my position on the issue. |
Do you want to pay the taxes to feed all these insane people? |
A better question would be, "Do you want to pay the taxes to kill all these insane people?" since it costs more to execute them than lock them up for life. _________________
| The English Language wrote: | | Please stop killing me. |
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yagadan05 Guest
Forum ID: -1
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:02 pm Post subject:
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| I don't see the big deal in paying taxes to ensure the safety of fellow Americans or any other Country - there are many other taxes that are more highly questionable |
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